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CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr reported within the hour that there are "dozens" of video clips on the two infamous CDs of official Abu Ghraib evidence.

NBC News Pentagon Correspondent Jim Miklaszewski says:

MIKLASZEWSKI:  U.S. military officials tell NBC News, the unreleased images, show American soldiers severely beating one Iraqi prisoner to near death; apparently, raping an Iraqi female prisoner; acting inappropriately with a dead body; and Iraqi guards apparently videotaped by U.S. soldiers raping young boys.

I've seen some analysis on television of this, and the general consensus seems to be that there couldn't be anything worse.  These analysts (sometimes quoted by reporters) claim that Arabs are likely to be even more offended by the rape of a boy than of a man, woman, or girl.  The fact that it's on video won't help, either.

Originally posted to Michael D on Mon May 10, 2004 at 11:57 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Child Rape (4.00)
    Just like in Skull and Bones!  Right, Rush?
  •  aoeu (none)
    Why didn't the cameramen and women stop it?

    You can stand us up at the gates of hell
    But we won't back down

    by TealVeal on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:02:51 PM PDT

    •  Oh don't ask unless you (4.00)
      want to hear the standard, which we will hear so many times our ears will bleed:  Following orders.
      More and more I am convinced it was fully part and parcel of the activity.
    •  This could only have happened (4.00)
      if the guards wanted it to happen, and almost certainly used coercion to make it happen.  A prison is a controlled environment.  Child rape does not happen under the gaze of the guards unless the guards intend it to occur.

      The US occupation is a criminal enterprise and should be prosecuted as such.  If this does not demonstrate why the US should be a signatory to the International Criminal Court, I don't know what would.

      "I realized they came to obliterate a whole society, a whole civilization." -- Abdul Rahman Muhammad Saleh

      by C S McCrum on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:12:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Part of the Plan (4.00)
      Yesterday on CNN Hersh said he believed the videotaping was a planned component of the "interogations."  What's worse than being sexually violated, or being forced to sexually violate or humiliate another human being?  Having the evidence of those degredations, especially if they were coereced but made to appear voluntary, disseminated among your family, your village, your clan.  AndI think we can all recognize that it's not a form of shame that's unique to Arab cultures--I'm hard pressed to imagine anything that would be more humiliating and degrading in our culture.
  •  Stomach-Turning (4.00)
    Awful.  What now?  Put the tapes in the public domain?  I'm not sure that I could watch them, but something seems wrong about letting the Bush administration and the corporate media "interpret" them for us.  Terrible.
    •  this is just sick.... (1.83)
      ...they seem to have send catholic priests instead of soldiers.

      "Is winning an election worth dishonoring the nation? Am I the one who should be ashamed about 1972?" George McGovern

      by jandsm on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:13:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i am sorry for this awful joke. (4.00)
        it was inappropriate. but after all these days with these terrible images, I just can't bear it anymore. I start overreacting. I'll shut up.

        "Is winning an election worth dishonoring the nation? Am I the one who should be ashamed about 1972?" George McGovern

        by jandsm on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:16:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'll say it again, (4.00)
    the time for Rum to go was immediately.  The world looks at this, the pretzel's comments this morning and they see embrace of all that is leaked before, released now.

    This is a whacko religionist pre-fascistic nation that has now produced prison porn imagery of torture on men, women and children.  Racist in nature as well.  Further, unless this story departs from the long running scenario of
    you think this is bad, WAIT.
    There really is nothing left to say.

    In my very dark view, we might have recovered from the war, the horror of it, the nightmare of BushCo, the strangled economy, with an election.  If at all possible more than one Democratic admin.  I am losing all thought we can do this.  Yes Kerry must be elected, but I suspect we are held as suspect if not worse for decades.

    •  Some good will come. (none)
      "I suspect we are held as suspect if not worse for decades."

      That's okay.  If the world distrusts our government, well, that will hurt some.  But if we American voters distrust our government, none of it will happen again.

      It is far better if the deliberations of a free state are known to its enemies, than if the secrets of a tyranny are concealed from its citizens. -- Spinoza

      by Gary Sugar on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:23:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, the only (4.00)
        number that will speak to me is the number who vote for BushCo on Nov 2.  I consider that a hard number.  The next one, can a Kerry admin, virtually from day one, under economic, FP and any number of, unknown yet, attacks from the right, hold the nation.  Next, can we swing re-election.  I worry how slippery sentiment is, the hard whacko right is not going anywhere.  

        I don't normally indicate such lack of hope, but I surely have it.  I very much fear the nation is too far gone.  Even now we just barely awaken anyone beyond the awake and aware already.
        If I had children I would leave.

        •  Well, a lot will vote for Bush. (none)
          but he will lose.  So that's a start.  We've been heading in the wrong direction for a long time; and it will take a long time to fix it; but it can be done, election by election.  

          It is far better if the deliberations of a free state are known to its enemies, than if the secrets of a tyranny are concealed from its citizens. -- Spinoza

          by Gary Sugar on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:43:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree he will lose. (4.00)
            But I will look sharply at the million count who, after all of this, vote for him.

            And I remain certain, it is instructive to have lived thru '68, '72, '76 and '80.  There is always a Pied Piper rising in the land.

    •  Not just Rum (4.00)
      Bush must go. It happened on his watch.

      If these videos include child rape, the world must see them. We cannot be afraid to face the truth. And the electorate must decide: Is this what America is to stand for?

      But you have nailed it by your reference to "whacko-religionistic." There's an opening here.

      I don't know how many Kos regulars actually talk to some of these "religious right" folks on a regular basis. I know I do -- probably not enough of them, but some.

      It's time to go right at them, right at them. Ask them if this is the morality they stand for. Ask them if this is not an abomination.

      Tell them you know there are differences between you and them on many issues. But that we all can agree that this is EVIL! And it must be stamped out, and that those responsible must be punished here on Earth before God metes out his judgment.

      A lot of these folks are sincere in their beliefs, easy as it is for us to demonize them. A "church lady" does not necessarily equal a freeper.

      If we can reach these folks, and appeal to whatever sense of true morality lies at their core, we can remove this president.

      This is serious business. This is, in fact, life and death, and I don't mean to be flip about it. Nevertheless, Meredith Willson shows us to connect the dots so that even some people will get it.

      Child rape is EVIL
      Right here in River City
      With a Capital E
      And that rhymes with B
      And that stands for BUSH

      "Lash those conservatives and traitors with the pen of gall and wormwood -- let them feel -- no temporising!" -- Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1837

      by Ivan on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:26:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Connecting the dots (3.50)
        Unfortunately it won't be that easy, because hard-core supporters won't see the causal connection between Bush and child rape. He's the commander in chief, but he didn't actually rape children himself, therefore he's not responsible.

        People believe what they want to believe, and then they shift around the facts and deny and rationalize to defend their beliefs rather than admit that they're wrong. The more fundamentalist and absolutist your belief system, the more this is true. Especially when what you believe is more important to you than even empirical evidence to the contrary.

        •  some good may yet be had (none)
          Your argument probably applies to a majority of "fundies" -- but not all.

          Christian fundamentalists aren't all of them always beholden politically to the Rightists that dominate most of their political thinking.  And some of members of fundamentalist churches are as fundamentalists as others.  Many of them also have a set of decent motives to draw from.  The question is who can draw this out of them, and how?

          I was a fundamentalist about 25 years ago, though I leaned left for most of that time.  When I chose to air them, my political beliefs got a very respectful hearing in my church back then, because I argued from the Bible.  That includes an article I wrote in a church newsletter.  

          I don't think the average Kossite should focus on persuading fundies to abandon Bush -- but if you have friends that are fundamentalists, it's worth knowing some talking points to discuss with them.

          Hear it? The Oracle cries the demise of He-Who-Lies. And the rise... of civil America.

          by Civil Sibyl on Mon May 10, 2004 at 01:20:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (none)
        The way your framing this, Clinton is responeable for every rape that occured in US Prisons during his term. I mean its not like he didnt know about them. What happened in Abu Gurblahblah was horrid, but so are teh gangrape's in San Quinten. What i am getting at is you and many other's are bordering on hipocracy and worse it may not be for the right reasons.

        <insert famous qoute about something important here>

        •  You miss a critical element: (none)
          Bush is CinC of the military (chain of command), and further that military was sent to elective war on lies of his conjuring.  
          Clinton was not CinC of the various (city, country, state and federal) levels of prisons in the nation.  A great distinction.  Remember, Bush serves as president and over those same prisons, and has control to the same extent Clinton did.
          •  Furthermore (none)
            Gang rapes in prisons are not officially sanctioned and not, in most cases, conducted by prison employees.  They are inmate on inmate violence.  Certainly there are sicko guards who tolerate it, but Clinton was not overseeing the employment conditions of the perpetrators.  Bush is.  Reading about the R2I interrogation techniques makes it clear that the pictured abuses are not anomalies but wink wink SOP.
    •  Why are they showing the faces? (none)
      In the New York Post today they blurred out the private parts but showed the face of one of the torture victims.
      •  Benefits (none)
        Our media are gallantly protecting us, the Americans, from "obscene" material (e.g., human genitalia).  God knows no broadcaster or publisher wants to pony up $500,000 to Michael Powell.  Apparently the victims aren't worthy of identity protection.
    •  Today (none)
      but I suspect we are held as suspect if not worse for decades.

      I was just musing, on my commute home, on my knee-jerk refusal to consider buying a Mercedes-Benz because they are made by Germans.  I wasn't alive during the Holocaust, I can't afford a MB, and I know intellectually that we are all capable of the atrocities the Germans committed, given the right circumstances. But that prejudice has persisted.  

      The Germans have rebuked themselves, but they suffered for a long time in the world community.  We haven't slaughtered millions.  Still, I wonder about the repercussions, too.

  •  A reflection of our current 'leadership' (3.87)
    It was "anything goes" after 9/11.  And this is the inevitable result.

    Arrogance, recklesness, and penchant for plugging their ears and covering their eyes to views other than their own have led to the place where we now stand as a nation.


    There is a giant wheel of karma, isn't there?  The problem is, of course, that we all have to pay for the sins of these wanton, destructive bastards.

    •  true... (none)
      "There is a giant wheel of karma, isn't there?"

      Often it seems too giant... it takes forever to come around.  I could be an optimist but I think it's moving a little faster every year.  Soon, instant karma... flywheel of karma.

  •  Torturers complicit in death toll (4.00)
    I can't imagine how many people are going to die because of the torture and abuse in these prisons. Video of women and children being raped by American soldiers (and/or Iraqi collaborators) is about as enraging as it can get. We would annihilate any nation on the planet if they did this to Americans. Those responsible for the torture and abuse also share some degree of responsibility for the actions of every Iraqi, and Muslim, and Arab who takes up arms against America because of this. Every American soldier blown up, every American contractor gunned down - they are complicit now.
    •  It might not be just the future death toll (4.00)
      This stuff was happening in Abu Ghraib back in late 2003, if I remember correctly.  What do you think are the odds that rumors of the abuse leaked out in Iraq, and helped recruit people to fight against the Americans in early 2004?  If this happened, then the abusers may be responsible in part for what has happened already, not just what might happen in the future.  Of course, I don't have any proof that the information did leak out before now, but I think it's possible.  
      •  good point (none)
         I'm sure info leaked out, and I'm sure it helped radicalize Iraqis and motivated foreigners to come to Iraq and fight the occupation.
         I read somewhere (sorry no citation) that the Red Cross had reported of prisoner abuse, torture, and other Geneva Convention violations in American facilities in Afghanistan as far back as late 2001/early 2002. It's seeming more and more like this has been going on since the very beginning of the "War on Terror". It really was a systemic problem, and I'm sure there are countless American soldiers and contractors furiously reformating their hard drives and microwaving their CD collections.
      •  RC indicates it (none)
        began immediately in May of 03.  It is coming out now that specific techniques employed were used at Baghram, where it also leaked in 02 and 03 that there were "problems".  It leaked out when the 2 prisoners died under interrogation from blunt force trauma nd were ruled "homicide" by the mil ME.
      •  About 100%. (4.00)
        What do you think are the odds that rumors of the abuse leaked out in Iraq, and helped recruit people to fight against the Americans in early 2004?

        We already have reporters telling us that Iraqis have been telling them about the torture in the prisons and the reporters freely admitting that they had not believed them untill the photos came out. These people also said that the rumours about the smaller prisons were worse.

        What do you think the odds are that abuse and rape and every other manner of thing was rampant in, say, Fallujah and other places outside of the prisons?

        What do you think the odds are of rapes of adult women being dismissed as lies and/or porn if they took a picture.

        "...the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells the truth but shouldn't have." Howard Dean

        by colleen on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:44:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  No excuse (4.00)
    If this is true, then we are at maximum outrage level.  There are people (Rush) that will justify humiliation and torture of adults as necessary to meet whatever ends.  But I don't believe than anyone can condone child rape.  Under any, any circumstances.  There is no more morally repugnant act.  IMO, this is the point of no return.  It literally cannot get any worse.

    Let the rabbits wear glasses.

    by out grrl on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:16:44 PM PDT

    •  After the line is crossed, just keep going (none)
      The same reasoning used to rationalize torture of adult prisoners easily extends itself to torturing children: "Hey, if the evildoer won't talk, even after we beat and rape him, maybe he'll give in if we beat and rape his kids. Sure, it sucks, but we can't afford to pull punches here; we're fighting evil!"

      Are we as bad as Saddam, yet?

      Confusion to the enemy!

      by YT on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:29:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Moral (3.83)
        Especially if the perpetrators have fallen into the moral black hole.  I have always had a wholly unsubstantiated belief that there are a number of people who are capable of committing atrocities.  They just never find themselves in a situation where atrocities are "acceptable".  So they go through their whole life with little more than a few speeding and parking tickets.  I can think of a few people I have encountered that would easily pass into the the moral black hole.

        Well, the situation presented itself at Abu Ghirab.  My guess is that this started out with slaps here and there and escalated as the limits were pushed over time.  I am sure that they did not walk in and immediately start raping the children.  They dug that hole deeper and deeper.  The isolation and conditions on the ground only accelerated the process.  Somone finally shined a light into that darkness.  Now there is nothing left but excuses.

        Let the rabbits wear glasses.

        by out grrl on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:39:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Mirror, mirror (none)
          I have always had a wholly unsubstantiated belief that there are a number of people who are capable of committing atrocities.

          The Stanford Prison study and the Milgram study (discussed here recently) show that under the right circumstances, the majority of us would do unspeakable things to other people.  The question in the current case (and we all know the answer) is, Who set the conditions for these people to debase themselves and the prisoners?  The buck stops there.

        •  the moral black hole (none)
          "the abyss"

          and I wish that thought really was unsubstantiated... or rather, untrue.

          But it's not.

  •  sickening (4.00)
    i have the growing feeling that moving from new york and finding myself a bomb shelter in the country might be a good idea.
  •  Just wait (none)
    The reaction from the Christian Fundies will be that this only ocurred due to the fact that the 'homos' have taken over our good, Christian nation.  But that only explains why they went after the boys.  The rape part will be explained by the fact that Clinton took advantage of an intern, thus opening up the possibility of sexual encounters for all.
    •  Not true and not plausible (none)
      Does marriage explain rape? Do adult relationships explain child abuse? Is Clinton the commandant of the gulag?

      "I realized they came to obliterate a whole society, a whole civilization." -- Abdul Rahman Muhammad Saleh

      by C S McCrum on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:28:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Of course (none)
        It's neither true nor plausible.  But when has that ever stopped the right wing smear machine?
      •  Never stopped fundies before (none)
        These "Christians" will be eating this stuff up. And this will all be coming out right around May that just a coincedence? What classic timing for the fundies and the GOP and right-wing talk radio.

        They have tried to blame everyone and everything. They know that most people will accept gays as scapegoats; they always have accepted them in the past. It's perfect politics for them.

        •  They may try it but it won't work. (none)
          The abuse is too generalized. It extends to heterosexual rape, abuse of corpses (where did we hear that last? did the Fallujah gang join the staff at Abu Ghraib?), sexual humiliation of men by women and women by men ... on Bush's watch.  

          "I realized they came to obliterate a whole society, a whole civilization." -- Abdul Rahman Muhammad Saleh

          by C S McCrum on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:52:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't think rationally (none)
            Just have the most irrational response you can think of. Say it really loudly, over and over and over, until you believe it's true.

            That is what the media will do. And that is what the public will feel. They have their favorite targets. They know who to go after.

    •  Falwell and Phelps (none)
      will be fighting over who gets to say it first.  Blame the fags!  Blame Clinton!  America is going to Hell!

      Despicable.  Don't let the buck stop at Rumsfeld; let this horrendous circumstance be the opportunity to excoriate the entire administration for gross negligence and dereliction of duty, from Bush down.

      from zero to rage in five seconds flat.

      by persimmony on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:29:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You're mistaken (none)
      Some might, but not all. It just isn't smart to regard the so-called "religious right" as monolithic. See my post upthread.

      Hard as it may be for some people to believe, a lot of fundmentalists and evangelicals (and there is a distinction) are motivated by a sincere desire to do good -- and to protect their children from rapists.

      If Bush is a good Christian man, he'll court-martial and sack everyone responsible for these outrages -- right up the chain of command -- won't he?

      If the GOP is the party of personal responsibility .. . get the idea?

      "Lash those conservatives and traitors with the pen of gall and wormwood -- let them feel -- no temporising!" -- Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1837

      by Ivan on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:37:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry if I was unclear (none)
        I didn't mean to imply that the religious right is a monolithic entity anymore than the environmentally aware left is.  This was more intended to guess the reaction from the hard core, Ralph Reed/Jerry Falweel types.  No disrespect intended.
      •  Agree (none)
        I agree.  My right-wing religious friends are, at the end of the day, primarily concerned about providing a healthy environment for their children (although their definition of "healthy" is not always aligned with everyone else's).  They are not deranged hatemongers.  And they HATE that characterization.

        Incidentally, more than one of them have soured on Bushco.  They see all the God-talk as pandering.  I think a number of them will stay home on election day (and at least one will definatly be voting for Kerry).

        Let the rabbits wear glasses.

        by out grrl on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:45:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Mirrors (none)
          I have no idea about your friends, but from my experience, many people balk at being called exactly what they are. When the "tolerant" layer is peeled away (and it always is), there's nothing but raw, unbridled hate underneath.

          The "Christian" behavior every time a homosexual is in the news or is killed (they just cheer and cheer) or every time they talk about abortion is pretty clear. Most of the people who still participate in fundie activities do so for a reason. They need someone to share the hate with.

          •  Not the Christians I Know (none)
            Those are not the Christians I know.  And, trust me, the ones I know are very far right.  They "talk to God".  It may be because most of my friends are pretty well educated and open minded.  We spend lots and lots of hours debating religion and politics and I am always surprised by how well they can defend every one of their positions.  Most of them think that folks like Roberston and Reed are very damaging to Christianity as a whole.

            Let the rabbits wear glasses.

            by out grrl on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:58:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No offense (none)
              But anyone who "think(s) that folks like Roberston and Reed are very damaging to Christianity as a whole" isn't very far right.  Just my opinion, but I wouldn't descibe them that way myself.
              •  You ... (none)
                ... have obviously never met my friends.  That is a terrible generalization.  They would find it insulting.  They are true Christians.  They spend their lives promoting charities and strong families and talking to God.  I may not believe in their God, but I know that they are good people.  They wouldn't be my friends if they weren't.  

                That is like saying that everyone on the far left has to support Nader.

                Let the rabbits wear glasses.

                by out grrl on Mon May 10, 2004 at 01:03:41 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You're right (none)
                  I haven't met your friends.  All I said is that I wouldn't descibe them as "very far right" if they thought that Reed and Falwell damaged Christianity.  That has nothing to do with their charity work or strong families.  They should only be insulted if they want to be described as "very far right."
                  •  Far Right (none)
                    They WOULD decribe themselves as "far right".  They are all extremely conservative.  But they don't like the hatemongering rhetoric.  They are anti-choice, but they don't advocate shooting doctors and they don't protest at clinics.  They are against most social services, but they balance that with strong emphasis on charity and building community.  The are against gay marriage (but won't tinker with the Constitution) but they don't hate gay people - like me.  In fact, they take the conservative side of almost every social debate.  But they don't like that Robertson tone.  They think Reed is an oily opportunist.  In short, they are thinking people - they just think differently.

                    Let the rabbits wear glasses.

                    by out grrl on Mon May 10, 2004 at 01:19:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  That's nice for you (none)
              I wish that I knew some fundamentalist Christians who had this viewpoint. I have never met any. They either get worse and worse as they stay in their religion, or they wake up and save themselves in time.
              •  Granted (none)
                They all believe that I am going to hell, but they don't wish me any ill will while I am alive.  That is actually a long running joke of ours.  

                I AM lucky.  They offer me an entirely different perspective.  They realized a long time ago that I can't be "saved" and I realized a long time ago that they are never going to join me at The Abbey on Decatur Street.  We are just friends who disagree.

                Let the rabbits wear glasses.

                by out grrl on Mon May 10, 2004 at 01:13:07 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Now (none)
            Now I get to call all of them to let them know I spent a part of my afternoon defending them on a liberal blog.  They will get a kick out of it.

            Let the rabbits wear glasses.

            by out grrl on Mon May 10, 2004 at 01:22:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Screw this... IMPEACH THESE ASSHOLES (4.00)
    Every last fucking one of them.  All of them.

    They have ruined this country.

    How can ANYONE condone this shit?  Bush supporters?  Where are you?  Whose fault is this?  Who can you blame now?

    They MUST GO!  Now!

  •  They Were Ordered to Make the Videos and Pix (4.00)
    If these MP's were making the pictures for themselves, they'd all be all over the internet by now. Nope, the pentagon has those CDs. They pray Hersh doesn't have what they have. Or that any "rogue" soldier has managed to upload them at some internet cafe (since KBR has shut off the flow of digital images from soldiers in Iraq).

    These images are officially sanctioned. ironically, they are going to bring down Bush the same way Nixon's secret office taping machine brought him down. And the Nazis hung themselves at Nurenberg because of the meticulous records they kept of criminal medical experiments and gas chamber exterminations.

    Supreme arrogance in all 3 cases. Above the laws of human decency.

  •  wonder (4.00)
    what God is saying to Bush today
  •  Morally bankrupt (4.00)
    This country is morally bankrupt.  This is the result of the atmosphere in the country perpetuated by Bush and the SCLM that sees the "other" as "evil," and that sucumbs to government propaganda and lies.  It comes from a timid opposition that failed to stand up to Bush soon enough, and even today relies on advice from political consultants rather than denunciations based on moral clarity.  Such as a particular candidate who is talking about health care costs when he should be denouncing the failure of his opponent to take responsibility and to demand accountability.

    Kerry 234 (172 solid). Bush 216 (196 solid). 88 undecided.

    by Paleo on Mon May 10, 2004 at 12:45:19 PM PDT

  •  Shame and horror (4.00)
    I almost can't believe how low this country has sunk. I take responsibility for my part in it. I didn't vote for this band of thugs, I screamed bloody murder before the war to whomever would listen, but I could have done more earlier. I have talents that I didn't put to use early enough. I saw this train wreck coming as early as 1998 (not the specifics, of course, or the depth, but the general outline wasn't too hard to see), but I didn't do anything then. No more. I may not be able to do much, but what I can do, I'm gonna do.

    acting inappropriately with a dead body

    Where is the outrage among the right on this? This country went into a paroxysm of rage, attacked and bombed a city, called people "savages" because of a group who acted "inappropriately with" dead bodies in Fallujah. I'm sure I'll see the same right wing suspects react with similar horror and outrage now.

    God, I'm tired of this shit.

    •  Bri, Bri... (none)
      We are doing one thing that matters greatly:
      genuinely facing it all, in the brightest of harsh sunlight and struggling to remain sane.  NOr are we stupid or blinkered about America's past when we face things.

      It counts for a tiny something.  And explains why it is so exhausting.

      And yes we have been on this course for a long time.  The reason it is so dire.  Many, many people have slipped to a "center" that truly is to the right by any standard.  One admin will not do it.

      •  A moral quagmire (none)
        Yeah, I'm facing it, and that does count for something. But, the truth is that this low point in our nation's history really only feels like a low point because of the pictures. This has been going on in Gitmo and, especially, Bagram for years. And before that in client-states throughout the Cold War. I have some hope that the immutable reality of these images shakes many decent Americans (and there are millions who are Republican, of course) to the core.

        And feeling like I can do something--and trying to do something--keeps me from moving to Nova Scotia (lovely land up in Nova Scotia). Hey, who knows, maybe my efforts may even do some good . . . worth a try.

        I promised you a while ago I'd make an effort to let you (and others) know when I'm up and running with what I guess I call my media venture (for lack of a less grandiose term). I haven't forgotten. Sometime over the early summer, looks like (money and institutional support is growing). I'll post something 'round here.


        •  My cousin and her husband (none)
          have been landed immigrants in Nova Scotia for over 30 years.  They decided long ago, never coming home.  Main reason, health care.

          It is true, the instance and the scale of this is the terror at hand.  But no, nothing new here.

  •  letter to many senators (4.00)
    However impossible this may be, I have written as many Senators as I can:

    The Abu Ghraib prison is a crime for which this administration must be held accountable. This was not an isolated incident and the soldiers did not perpetrate these actions on their own nor take those photos for souvenirs. When Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld approved putting Military Intelligence in charge at this and other prisons, he set the stage for this crime. The soldiers committed these atrocities based on MI's directive to soften up detainees for interrogation. They took these photos to further intimidate the detainees--again to soften them up. Military Intelligence was obviously aware of and encouraging this.

    Rumsfeld is responsible for these atrocities. But none of President Bush's cabinet make decisions without his approval. The President cannot argue that he was unaware. It is his responsibility to be aware of the actions of his cabinet. He is ultimately guilty of this crime. Given Vice-president Cheney's unprecedented involvement in all administration policies and decisions, he is guilty as well.

    I urge you to call for impeachment proceedings for George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld.

  •  I wanna know (none)
    Why TF were boys of any age being kept in an American prison and mostly I wanna know Why TF YOUNG boys were being incarcerated?

    George's classmates on his performance at Harvard, "...completely out of his depth." (and two decades of drug and alcohol abuse haven't helped any.)

    by NorCalJim on Mon May 10, 2004 at 09:00:09 PM PDT

  •  "Americans don't do these things?" (none)
    Touchy subject, but... The Catholic Church has provided somewhat of a haven here in the US for child molesters.  I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but well it's true.  Everyone knows about the scandals.  The priests who are caught are sent to a correctional camp in New Mexico or someplace which is essentially, a country club for pederasts.  There has been plenty of child abuse tolerated under our watch and in our country.  It's still going on today.  And in my opinion, if you love your children, you will not take them anywhere near a Catholic Church.  They should all be disbanded and the whole organization dismantled.

    The current situation is radioactive.  Bush has known about these videos since January.  It's in the report.  NOW he's sickened when it's politically expedient for him to do so.  He is trying to convince us there's a way out of this.  THERE IS NOT.  Not for him and his pals, anyway.  The only way out, for all of us, is to frog march everyone of them out in manacles and try them for war crimes in an International Tribunal.

    "I don't know where Bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

    by reef the dog on Tue May 11, 2004 at 12:27:15 AM PDT

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